Designing Burnout Out of the Workplace — A Conversation with Kurt Merriweather and Starr Guthrie 

Burnout, much like a gas leak, is best addressed before it’s detected. Otherwise, it can rarely be resolved without consequence—whether that’s turnover, lost trust, or long-term disengagement. 

As Starr Guthrie, LCSW and WPO Service Lead, explained during an insightful session on Day 1 of the Center for Organizational Effectiveness’ four-day virtual summit, Thriving in Uncertainty: Leadership and Wellbeing in Turbulent Times, by the time leaders recognize burnout, it’s often already too late. To protect both people and performance, organizations must shift from a reactive to proactive approach—one that prevents burnout before it disrupts productivity, drains morale, and drives people out the door. 

In a thoughtful conversation with Kurt Merriweather, CDE®, VP of Employee Engagement Solutions at WPO and host of the session, “From Reaction to Prevention: Designing Wellbeing-First Workplaces,” Guthrie explored what it takes to shift from crisis response to true prevention—unpacking the systems-level changes needed to move beyond compliance and build cultures where sustained wellbeing fuels productivity, retention and organizational resilience. 

Read an excerpt from the session below: 

Kurt: So let’s talk about this idea of defense versus offense. Starr, when we talked a little bit before, we touched on organizations that tend to approach wellbeing from a compliance mindset. Can you share some examples of organizations that are playing defense when it comes to wellbeing? And why thinking about it from a compliance or defensive mindset is problematic? 

Starr: I think oftentimes when you look at it from a defensive perspective, something has happened, right? “Something significant has happened and we need to take action,” as opposed to “If we put structures in place prior to, we prepare for it.” 

I think of it like a storm: Do you patch up the roof after the storm hits? Or do you go ahead and enforce the structure before the storm arrives? I think it’s important for organizations to look at it from that perspective. 

Kurt: Right. So why do you think organizations think about it this way—in this defensive mindset—instead of being more proactive? 

Starr: I wonder if sometimes organizations just aren’t aware. Maybe they don’t realize these issues are taking place. But we can look at past experiences or learn from other organizations, we can see what’s happening in the world and say, “Okay, this is something that is trending. What can we do to fortify our organization?” 

So sometimes, maybe organizations simply don’t know—and that’s why this defense or compliance mindset takes hold. 

Other times, organizations might not think about wellbeing until something actually happens. And sometimes, the focus isn’t on wellbeing—it’s more focused on output, on “What service are delivering?” rather than the quality of the people delivering that service. 

But we know that focusing on the people actually delivering the work results in better service. When you empower your employees, they will produce a better product or service. And that’s why organizations need to prioritize wellbeing alongside, not behind, productivity. 

Kurt: Right, absolutely. So, Starr, when you enter into an organization that’s being reactive, how does that impact you as you’re trying to help them, compared to working with organizations that have that proactive mindset? 

Starr: I think the atmosphere is certainly different. If you come into a place that’s used to playing offense, you’re another tool that’s reinforcing what’s already being done. And so, there’s a more welcoming spirit. 

But if you come in after something has occurred—when there’s trouble or people are disgruntled or unhappy—you hear things like, “We needed you months ago,” or “Why did this have to happen for you to be here?” that sort of thing. It changes how people receive you. 

So the mindset and perspective make a big difference. I’m either coming in as another reminder that the organization values and cares for its people—or I’m the example of “We do care about our employees. This happened, so now here you are,” if that makes sense.  

Kurt: It does. So one of the things you’re pointing out is the message sent when an organization is proactive—it signals how much they care about their people. But maybe it’s not even about caring as much as it is about awareness. 

What situations have you encountered where there’s simply a lack of awareness of what’s happening in the organization from a wellbeing perspective? 

Starr: I think lack of awareness often comes from not asking the right questions. Leaders need to make sure they’re asking open, honest questions—not just ones designed to confirm their existing assumptions. You have to be willing and able to receive criticism. 

So asking the hard questions and being prepared to receive difficult or uncomfortable answers is something I find many organizations shy away from. And then failing to ask, “What can I do to really take this feedback forward?” I think is another error leaders make that results in them not really being aware of the situation in their workplace or the threat burnout poses to their teams. 

Kurt: Absolutely. So, what are a couple of questions organizations should be asking to get an accurate sense of what’s going on inside? 

Starr: Questions like, “What’s going well, and how can we reinforce that?” and “What’s not going well, and what can we do to improve?” I think are essential. And then from there the leadership really needs to look at those responses and start putting things in place that respond to that feedback. 

Often, that requires policy changes. Other times, it demands cultural shifts. For example, making sure employees take lunch breaks instead of working through lunch, and rejecting the glorification of hustle culture in favor of workplace wellbeing.  

Kurt: I think the idea of idolizing hustle was an interesting way to frame that. There’s been a lot of reports around this idea of toxic productivity and how we glamorize this idea of hustle culture in a lot of different industries. In your experience, what signals indicate that burnout is being normalized as just part of the job or part of what’s expected? That it’s either celebrated or ignored altogether? 

Starr: I think when you talk about toxic productivity—things like working through lunch, not taking breaks, working when you’re not at work, always being available, staying late—those are some of the red flags that show burnout is happening.  

Kurt: Definitely. What are some examples in terms of behaviors that leaders can demonstrate that are small but send the right message to employees if they’re going to champion wellbeing from the top down in an organization? 

Starr: That’s a great question. I actually had a conversation just last week with a leader, and I said… 

Curious how leaders can proactively support wellbeing and design burnout out of the culture?  

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